Tuesday, January 15, 2008

Are Pre-Tribulationalists deluded?

This article was posted on the Fulfilled Prophecy website 1-15-2008.
Blessed Hope or False Hope?

The author seems to be concerned that Pre-Tribbers, deluded by the likes of LaHaye and Lindsey, will be suddenly found wanting: "Christians who believe they won't have to face persecution may be woefully unprepared for this great test of their faith."

I wonder how this squares off with the Calvinist OSAS/Eternal Security doctrine and the teaching that those who take the Mark are damned to Hell. So, if Christians have to undergo this “test of their faith” and they fail by accepting the Mark, then they weren’t saved in the first place?

I partly agree with the author. In fact, Pastors should be preparing Western Christians for the possibility of the types of trials, persecutions and martyrdoms that Christians are now experiencing in China, India and the Middle East. From a personal perspective, however, the (Pre-Trib) Christians I come in contact with have a strong day-to-day faith in God and I feel she is making assumptions based on her rapture position.

Presumably drawing from an article by Rosenthal, the author introduces the “John Nelson Darby” argument. See also: Is the Pre-Trib Rapture a Satanic Deception?

Quite frankly, the arguments on origin can go back and forth ad nauseam without concluding anything. Paul warned the Thessalonians that wrong teaching was already entering the church back then. As a whole, the early church eventually gave up on the teaching of premillennialism, took up salvation by works and embraced replacement theology. So at some point, those truths were rediscovered. By arguing the “John Nelson Darby” theory, Rosenthal is standing on shaky ground as the Pre-Wrath theory is the most recent of all and Rosenthal, a former Pre-Tribber, was heavily influenced by Robert Van Kampen. But at the end of the day the dating of a theory or teaching is moot. The proof of the pudding is scriptural truth.

Further, there also seems to be a dangerous quasi-teaching or “speculation” that we have been in Daniel’s 70th week since Jan 07 (some say even earlier) based on the European Neighborhood Policy, Recommendation 666 and that Javier Solana is most likely the Antichrist. How many believers in this "theory" might actually become despondent and lose faith if this turns out to be wrong? What if mid 2010 arrives and there is no Temple sacrifice, no Two Witnesses, no 144,000, no visible Antichrist and no False Prophet?

Could it be argued, then, that Satan has led these people into a strong delusion? I don’t honestly think so - but then neither is “The Blessed Hope” a Satanic delusion.

A review of the Pre-Wrath rapture of the Church
By Gerald B. Stanton


Pre-Wrath Eschatology

"Robert Van Kampen was the inventor of the three-quarters rapture theory in the late 1970s. According to one who was there, he first eliminated pretribulationism and then excluded posttribulationism. Thus, he had to come up with another view. That view is what he called the "pre-wrath" rapture theory. That title is a misnomer, since pretribulationism is 100% pre-wrath. If we follow consistency in labeling, Van Kampen's view should be called the three-quarters rapture position, since he teaches that the church will be raptured somewhere in the middle of the last three and a half years of the 70th week of Daniel."...The Three-Quarters Rapture Theory

The Two Witnesses: First or Second Half of the Tribulation?

What validity, if any, should be given to the Pre-wrath Rapture theory?

16 comments:

Alesia said...

HEY! When did you put this one up?
This looks like really good reading - I'll have to spend more time on it when at home!

BTW - how did you get Mac's picture so small? All the pictures on my blog look super-sized, I can't figure out how to make them smaller.

Anonymous said...

Your readers can get an A+ in pretrib rapture history by Googling "Pretrib Rapture Diehards," "Famous Rapture Watchers," and "Pretrib Rapture Desperados" (all composed by the author of the bestseller "The Rapture Plot" which is carried by Armageddon Books). Kiko

Alf Cengia said...

Dave MacPherson's the Rapture plot: weighed and found wanting

Anonymous said...

Readers can Google "Powered by Christ Ministries" and see MacPherson's devastating answer to Marotta's frothy and kneejerk reaction piece. Just look for the "Dave MacPherson Archives." Kiko

Alf Cengia said...

"MacPherson's devastating answer to Marotta's frothy and kneejerk reaction piece".

Sounds like a newspaper headline:-)

Alf Cengia said...

Myths of the Origin of Pretribulationism (Part 1)

Part 2-Myths of the Origin of the Rapture

On Dave MacPherson's Article Entitled "Deceiving and Being Deceived"

Dave MacPherson

Anonymous said...

If interested in the No. 1 pretrib diehard, Google "Thomas Ice (Bloopers)," and "Thomas Ice (Hired Gun)." If "Dr." Ice can't copy Macdonald's 117-line revelation account of 1830 without leaving out a total of 49 words, why should anyone listen to him? Three years later LaHaye included her account in his "No Fear of the Storm" and left out the same 49 words! Don't they have time to do their own research instead of just copying (and miscopying) each other? Do their so-called doctorates really help them? How gullible can American Christians be? Just my thoughts. Kiko

Alf Cengia said...

Anonymous, Kiko - yes, I've seen all of that, having spent some time trawling through the Preterist archives etc. We can play tit for tat till the sun stops shining. We can talk about Scofield's private failures etc. I note that LaHaye seems to be the favourite Pre-Wrath whipping boy and I've seen derogatory remarks about Ice's body type on some Preterist sites. However, I happen to think their eschatology is more sound than either the Preterists or the postribbers and I used to be an amillennialist. The point is Pre-Tribbers are only deluded if their eschatology cannot be shown to be valid through scripture. I'm not sure what your point is other than to waste your time and mine.

Anonymous said...

Mac,
Your right on the money brother!
Love the truth of Scripture.

To bad some like anonymous can't
get their head out of the sand long
enough to get past surface renderings
and get down to the truth of the matter.

Guess he'll have to say he'd wrong
on the way up. If not he'll never make it through the Tribulation alive.

I too get tired of the same old Mc Donalds Mctrash. How about some Scriptures from these guys instead
of same ole same ole Mc ole.

Anonymous said...

I am more open to the timing of the Rapture than I used to be, thinking maybe it is the 70th week. But then again, maybe not quite yet. Anyway, Chris Perver's website had an article called "Dozens in Texas town report seeing UFO" by Olli-Pekka Tuikkala which gives a good reasoning about when it happens. Of course, I am still not committed to any viewpoint- but the article is short but interesting. (And it does touch on the sighting of ufo's over Texas, too, but that wasn't as interesting as his thoughts on the Rapture, imo.)

For cryin' out loud, that stupid word verification won't let me post!!!

Alf Cengia said...

Yes, I've been to Chris' site and taken a look around. I have a gut feeling, though, when the real 70th week starts, we'll know all about it...in the event that we're still here.

Anonymous said...

anonymous should simply get his
Bible out and blow off the dust...
then compare it with your articles
and believe the truth!

Glad to call you a Brother.
Keep up the good work.

BrotherMark

Alf Cengia said...

I guess we have to accept that some very good scholars will look at a bunch of Bible verses and come away with different interpretations.

To a degree I can sympathize with the different rapture views but it seems to me that the Prewrath camp, in particular, tries to pinpoint the time within the 70th week when Jesus is returning for us. Whereas I'm pretty darn sure scripture consistently tells us WE DO NOT KNOW.

Kathy Hall said...

Hi Mac,

Kathy Hall here. Hope it's ok to drop in. I just wanted to let you know that the prewrath position teaches that no man knows the day or the hour but we can know the season of Christ's return. Prewrath follows Mt. 24 literally and chronologically. Christ returns and gathers us sometime after Anti-Christ reveals himself at the midpoint of Daniel's 70th Week but before the end of the Week. I just reposted my testimony to a new blog. Please feel free to read it and let me know what you think.

Your Mate was mighty handsome!

Take care,
Kathy

Kathy Hall said...

Hi Mac,

It's me again. I just read your link "Prewrath Eschatology". I hope you will pick up Rosenthal's book and read it for yourself. The prewrath view is misrepresented in some areas on that link.

Kathy

Kathy Hall said...

"In a book titled The Pre-Wrath Rapture of the Church by Marvin Rosenthal, this earlier reliable proponent of the pretrib position altered his view and suggested that the Rapture will take place twenty-one months after the time designated by the midtribulationists and five and a half years after the pretribulation position."

This is a quote at the beginning of your last link of this post.

Please, please, please read Rosenthal for yourself. He sets no dates such as months or years.

YSIC,
Kathy