This is a series of four audios by Pastor Joe Focht of Calvary Chapel Philadelphia. Pastor Joe takes the Pretrib position whereas, increasingly, many new pastors are teaching Prewrath.
The Rapture
But whatever position you take, I highly recommend Pastor Joe's other Biblical studies. I love the way this man teaches.
Topical Studies
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12 comments:
Mac;
You have a nice blog here. Just ran across it by accident when clicking on bloggers names. Very good comments on the pri-trib position, I was also a-mil in my upbringing thru the RC church. Matter of fact they didn't talk at all about the Lord's return as I recall. Will write more later.
God Bless!
Mac;
I listened to the commentary you posted on the rapture, some of the reasons he lists for pre-trib I have not heard before. I think the most compelling though, is the imminant(sp) argument. It is reinforced by many of the apostles teachings as well. I cannot see how anyone can deny that Jesus taught an at any moment return, and since that is a fact, how can they say anything but pre-trib is not knowing the time of his return. I know I have heard most of the arguments over the years and have not heard one yet that makes complete sense. I also have both Vancampen(sp) and Rosenthall's books and have read both quite some time ago. Though some of the arguments are compelling, they base most of the timing on trying to make Revelation fit their mold, and the argument is based on only a portion of scripture, and assuming God's wrath wrongly.
Anyway thanks for posting those teachings, they have encouraged me greatly. I will visit again.
God Bless!
Thanks for your kind words, GT.
I’m actually very conscious about trying not to use this blog to perpetuate the Pretrib rapture theory per se. However, I felt led to comment on the article on Fulfilled Prophecy after reading so much diatribe aimed at LaHaye in particular and Pretribbers in general - in various forums - as to their motivations for holding to their rapture belief.
With regards to LaHaye; while I’m not a fan of the “Left Behind” novels, I do have a couple of his non-fiction eschatological books and I think he is grossly underestimated. His presentation of Revelation is actually quite sophisticated.
I haven’t read Rosenthal or Kampen but I intend to get Rosenthal’s book eventually. I have no doubt the books can be convincing and I can imagine that if someone has been taught the Pretrib position but hasn’t really studied it, then coming across a book like Rosenthal’s would sway them over. I’ve seen most of the Prewrath arguments on their websites and they do make one think, and this is a good thing - but having said that, there is a lot of persuasive material rebutting the Prewrath position.
I’ve also seen the doco claiming to prove that man didn’t really land on the moon…and that was convincing at the time. In fact some of my friends were conned by it. So you have to do your homework.
I think you hit the nail on the head regarding imminency. Regardless of the convoluted arguments trying to prove otherwise…I’m getting the message from my Bible that we don’t know when the Lord is returning. Now, whether or not He comes for us some time during the 70th week is another issue.
Mac;
You are welcome. As far as Lahaye is concerned, I haven't read or own any of the left behind series. I think that the idea of using the rapture as a scare tactic to get people to believe is wrong in most, if not all cases. I never liked the way Lahaye commercialized it. Perhaps that is one of the reasons he gets attacked so much, he was the first to write fiction about it. I also don't like reading fiction of that sort (although I was a big science fiction reader at one time). I do own his "No fear of the Storm" book, it defends the pre-trib view. Also I value his work with Tommy Ice on the pre-trb research site, that is the best resource I have found yet. I also agree that one can be swayed into other views without having a deep understanding of all the end time scriptures, ect. I have gone back and forth in my early studies too.
There is so much to learn about from so many parts of the Bible, it gets overwhelming real easy. After all some, have spent their entire lives just studying eschatology, so I don't feel so bad not "knowing it all". well I better stop now before I write a book!
God Bless!
If I might make a slight correction to the preceding post, a much earlier Rapture series of books was written about a hundred years ago (I don't have a copy on hand to be sure of the exact printing) called "In the Twinkling of an Eye". It had two sequels. In the one book the AC was actually a devil who was born to his Jewish mother who hated Christianity and blamed the problems of the Jews on Jesus, so she made a pact with the devil to bear his seed to fight the Christians. I think, according to the book, the AC was supposed to be the same devil who Judas really was, according to the book, based on Jesus telling the disciples, one of you is a devil. The author said Jesus never told anyone else that. There was a third book, also, presumably about the return of Christ, but I never found that book yet at a yard sale.
anon;
Thanks for the correction, I should have said that the left behind series is most likely the most widely read of any fiction on the topic. I know that others have written before Lahaye but his is by far the most popular, which is probably a good thing. I just disagree with the idea of scare tactics, but I guess sometimes that is the only thing that will get someones attention.
God Bless!
I tell you I love the look of your blog, so you go & change it all around?
I SEE - you're one of those kind of guys!
(love the picture at the top)
Well, I took a look at some other blogs last night and it appears the template I had previously is very common place. Mind you, I'll probably change it again.
Anyway...young lady...I happen to know someone else who likes to experiment with different colour schemes.
And voilà, I've changed it again...tho I'm still not totally satisfied :-)
I hate it - I hate it - I hate it!
(using reverse psychology, maybe this way you'll keep it as is)
Isn't as effective if I tell you, though! LOL
May God forgive me, I couldn't resist. This is a classic exchange between a certain Brother D and a couple of Prewrathers (The heavies, no less) that invaded his blog. He's since disabled his comments - I wonder why :-) However, they never did actually answer his question:
Christian Apostacy
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